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	<title>Comments on: Try Try Try (28/4/2012)</title>
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	<description>The Dragons Are Coming</description>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45988</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephendeas.com/?p=2600#comment-45988</guid>
		<description>My own view is far less ambitious. I think that it&#039;s unfair to blame any given individual for failing to improve their circumstances without knowing how hard they tried to better them. Some people try very hard and fail because the obstacles in their way are simply overwhelming to them. Others don&#039;t try at all. Broad sweeping generalisations are always flawed. Necessary, perhaps, when one it talking of governments, but not in ones own dealings with individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own view is far less ambitious. I think that it&#8217;s unfair to blame any given individual for failing to improve their circumstances without knowing how hard they tried to better them. Some people try very hard and fail because the obstacles in their way are simply overwhelming to them. Others don&#8217;t try at all. Broad sweeping generalisations are always flawed. Necessary, perhaps, when one it talking of governments, but not in ones own dealings with individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Weirdmage</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45969</link>
		<dc:creator>Weirdmage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephendeas.com/?p=2600#comment-45969</guid>
		<description>@Edwin

What you are advocating is victim blaming. A very dangerous practice that is usually done by those committing the crimes, or by those priveledged few who has never been in a position where they didn&#039;t have control over the situation.
That you use the term &quot;True, there is a slim chance that that particular individual has tried to better themselves&quot;, makes me think that you have no idea of how it is to live in a difficult situation. 

The problem with oppression is that the majority group is almost always the middle one. Those that are neither oppressors or directly oppressed -the so called silent majority. In the case of capitalism, this is the Middle Class, and upper Working Class. People who live comfortably, and don&#039;t want to &quot;rock the boat&quot;. It&#039;s the silence of these people who perpetrates an oppressive system.
Those who are really oppressed usually are too busy surviving on a day to day basis to start any kind of rebellion. It&#039;s the ones living comfortably who have the time, and power, to fight the oppressors, but they usually just sit on their ass and do nothing. Either ignoring the problem altogether, or turning to victim blaming so they don&#039;t have to face the fact that oppression is going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Edwin</p>
<p>What you are advocating is victim blaming. A very dangerous practice that is usually done by those committing the crimes, or by those priveledged few who has never been in a position where they didn&#8217;t have control over the situation.<br />
That you use the term &#8220;True, there is a slim chance that that particular individual has tried to better themselves&#8221;, makes me think that you have no idea of how it is to live in a difficult situation. </p>
<p>The problem with oppression is that the majority group is almost always the middle one. Those that are neither oppressors or directly oppressed -the so called silent majority. In the case of capitalism, this is the Middle Class, and upper Working Class. People who live comfortably, and don&#8217;t want to &#8220;rock the boat&#8221;. It&#8217;s the silence of these people who perpetrates an oppressive system.<br />
Those who are really oppressed usually are too busy surviving on a day to day basis to start any kind of rebellion. It&#8217;s the ones living comfortably who have the time, and power, to fight the oppressors, but they usually just sit on their ass and do nothing. Either ignoring the problem altogether, or turning to victim blaming so they don&#8217;t have to face the fact that oppression is going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Edwin</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45957</link>
		<dc:creator>Edwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephendeas.com/?p=2600#comment-45957</guid>
		<description>No. What&#039;s the purpose of blaming someone for their circumstances? To encourage them to improve them, surely. If you don&#039;t blame them, instead say that it is the product of society or some such, then they have no encouragement to rise up against the oppressors, and instead call on others to do it for them. You can&#039;t not blame them because a small number of people do try and still fail, because it will be their fault that they are oppressed. True, there is a slim chance that that particular individual has tried to better themselves, but look at it this way; in all cases of exploitation there are a small number of people taking advantage of a large group. How does this come to be? Because out of that large group of people suffering, only a very small number actually attempt to improve their circumstances, and these are outnumbered by the oppressors, so they fail. The exploited people&#039;s failure to act is the single cause of exploitation, and not blaming them for this is foolish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. What&#8217;s the purpose of blaming someone for their circumstances? To encourage them to improve them, surely. If you don&#8217;t blame them, instead say that it is the product of society or some such, then they have no encouragement to rise up against the oppressors, and instead call on others to do it for them. You can&#8217;t not blame them because a small number of people do try and still fail, because it will be their fault that they are oppressed. True, there is a slim chance that that particular individual has tried to better themselves, but look at it this way; in all cases of exploitation there are a small number of people taking advantage of a large group. How does this come to be? Because out of that large group of people suffering, only a very small number actually attempt to improve their circumstances, and these are outnumbered by the oppressors, so they fail. The exploited people&#8217;s failure to act is the single cause of exploitation, and not blaming them for this is foolish.</p>
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		<title>By: Fingers</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45934</link>
		<dc:creator>Fingers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is at least one important philosophy which encourages the adherents to give up their aspirations (the &quot;elimination of desire&quot;): Buddhism. For many people, it would be a sensible approach to life. 
However, it is hard to make a good story out of a hero stoically accepting his/her unhappy circumstances.
Ishiguro&#039;s &quot;Never Let Me Go&quot; shows that it is possible, although some readers were alienated by the heroes&#039; lack of rebellion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is at least one important philosophy which encourages the adherents to give up their aspirations (the &#8220;elimination of desire&#8221;): Buddhism. For many people, it would be a sensible approach to life.<br />
However, it is hard to make a good story out of a hero stoically accepting his/her unhappy circumstances.<br />
Ishiguro&#8217;s &#8220;Never Let Me Go&#8221; shows that it is possible, although some readers were alienated by the heroes&#8217; lack of rebellion.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45922</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephendeas.com/?p=2600#comment-45922</guid>
		<description>Edwin: I think it&#039;s wrong to make any default assumption that someone is in bad circumstances is there because they didn&#039;t try hard enough not to be without understanding how their circumstances came about and what they&#039;ve done to try and improve them. For any given individual it may be true or it may not.

Weirdmage: See, I agree with everything you say and I still find the opening statement poisonous. It is indeed NOT OK (in my view) to simply blame people in a generic way for not trying hard enough. But does that mean we shouldn&#039;t write and tell and read stories of exceptional people, both real and fictional, who, through extraordinary effort and belief DO rise above what for most of us would be insurmountable circumstances? I think not. I&#039;ll keep my stories of a selfish and elitist systems being crushed by their own short-sighted biogtry, but I&#039;ll keep my stories of people whose tireless efforts to change or overthrow them - or merely to better themselves - meet with some (perhaps unlikely) success too. Inspiration and hope are powerful things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edwin: I think it&#8217;s wrong to make any default assumption that someone is in bad circumstances is there because they didn&#8217;t try hard enough not to be without understanding how their circumstances came about and what they&#8217;ve done to try and improve them. For any given individual it may be true or it may not.</p>
<p>Weirdmage: See, I agree with everything you say and I still find the opening statement poisonous. It is indeed NOT OK (in my view) to simply blame people in a generic way for not trying hard enough. But does that mean we shouldn&#8217;t write and tell and read stories of exceptional people, both real and fictional, who, through extraordinary effort and belief DO rise above what for most of us would be insurmountable circumstances? I think not. I&#8217;ll keep my stories of a selfish and elitist systems being crushed by their own short-sighted biogtry, but I&#8217;ll keep my stories of people whose tireless efforts to change or overthrow them &#8211; or merely to better themselves &#8211; meet with some (perhaps unlikely) success too. Inspiration and hope are powerful things.</p>
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		<title>By: Weirdmage</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45920</link>
		<dc:creator>Weirdmage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephendeas.com/?p=2600#comment-45920</guid>
		<description>&quot;Depicting exceptional people simply fuels the assumption that the individual can overcome their social circumstances if they try-try-try and believe-believe-believe, and thus the tendency to hold the individual responsible for their exploitation. This is a bad thing.&quot;

I agree with this. This is the same thing that is happening with social security in the US. The people who say it isn&#039;t needed are basically saying that &quot;if you weren&#039;t so lazy, and had applied yourself you wouldn&#039;t be poor, and you shouldn&#039;t expect the people who make an effort to pay for your laziness&quot;. This is of course in most cases a false statement. So yes, I see that way of thinking as a way of suppressing individuals and giving them the blame for circumstances they have no control over.

This doesn&#039;t mean that people should not try to overcome their circumstances. But we must be realistic enough to know that many will not succeed, and in those cases blaming the individual is giving up on changing the way society works. Ignoring that our capitalistic society is built on many people working long hours and still only barely making enough money to get by, is in fact itself a failure to try to achieve something better as a society.

The ultimate tool of capitalist oppression is blaming the individual instead of the system. Not everyone can be a millionaire business owner, someone has to get payed less than they contribute for those at the top to get rich.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Depicting exceptional people simply fuels the assumption that the individual can overcome their social circumstances if they try-try-try and believe-believe-believe, and thus the tendency to hold the individual responsible for their exploitation. This is a bad thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with this. This is the same thing that is happening with social security in the US. The people who say it isn&#8217;t needed are basically saying that &#8220;if you weren&#8217;t so lazy, and had applied yourself you wouldn&#8217;t be poor, and you shouldn&#8217;t expect the people who make an effort to pay for your laziness&#8221;. This is of course in most cases a false statement. So yes, I see that way of thinking as a way of suppressing individuals and giving them the blame for circumstances they have no control over.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t mean that people should not try to overcome their circumstances. But we must be realistic enough to know that many will not succeed, and in those cases blaming the individual is giving up on changing the way society works. Ignoring that our capitalistic society is built on many people working long hours and still only barely making enough money to get by, is in fact itself a failure to try to achieve something better as a society.</p>
<p>The ultimate tool of capitalist oppression is blaming the individual instead of the system. Not everyone can be a millionaire business owner, someone has to get payed less than they contribute for those at the top to get rich.</p>
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		<title>By: Edwin</title>
		<link>http://www.stephendeas.com/try-try-try-2842012/comment-page-1/#comment-45919</link>
		<dc:creator>Edwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stephendeas.com/?p=2600#comment-45919</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not entirely sure I agree. Blaming people for their own circumstances because they didn&#039;t try hard enough is not a bad thing. There may be some people who try exceptionally hard and still fail, but the majority of people in sub-standard circumstances will be there because they didn&#039;t try, they instead made the choice to not make a real and collected attempt to succeed. 

I completely agree that you should shoot for the moon as often as you can, and my argument is that most people will not follow their philosophy, and their life will suck not because they are incapable of improving it, but because they didn&#039;t try. Therefore, holding the individual responsible for their exploitation is not necessarily a bad thing, as in the most case you will be right, and it is in fact that individual&#039;s fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure I agree. Blaming people for their own circumstances because they didn&#8217;t try hard enough is not a bad thing. There may be some people who try exceptionally hard and still fail, but the majority of people in sub-standard circumstances will be there because they didn&#8217;t try, they instead made the choice to not make a real and collected attempt to succeed. </p>
<p>I completely agree that you should shoot for the moon as often as you can, and my argument is that most people will not follow their philosophy, and their life will suck not because they are incapable of improving it, but because they didn&#8217;t try. Therefore, holding the individual responsible for their exploitation is not necessarily a bad thing, as in the most case you will be right, and it is in fact that individual&#8217;s fault.</p>
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